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Offline Rota

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THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« on: March 20, 2011, 07:43:57 PM »
If you think that getting 165 hp out of a 1.6L motor isn't enough, check this out... There's a highly-tuned, normally-aspirated 4A-GE variant used in the Toyota Formula Atlantic Series. The displacement is still at 1.6L, but they fitted it with a fuel-injection/ignition system by TRD. In full-race trim, you can expect to get 240 beat-you-till-you're-senseless horsepower! At home in a 1,260 lb. race car, 0-60 passes by in 2.8 seconds! Quick calculations show that this monster of a motor develops 150 hp per liter. To put it into perspective, if the 5.7L Corvette engine was tuned to the same level of the 4A-GE race motor, it would make around 855 hp! And the F/A motor doesn't even have steel cylinder inserts! Umm, Hondacura motors don't seem to be as robust as Toyota's now, do they?!
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2011, 07:47:39 PM »
If you think that getting 165 hp out of a 1.6L motor isn't enough, check this out... There's a highly-tuned, normally-aspirated 4A-GE variant used in the Toyota Formula Atlantic Series. The displacement is still at 1.6L, but they fitted it with a fuel-injection/ignition system by TRD. In full-race trim, you can expect to get 240 beat-you-till-you're-senseless horsepower! At home in a 1,260 lb. race car, 0-60 passes by in 2.8 seconds! Quick calculations show that this monster of a motor develops 150 hp per liter. To put it into perspective, if the 5.7L Corvette engine was tuned to the same level of the 4A-GE race motor, it would make around 855 hp! And the F/A motor doesn't even have steel cylinder inserts! Umm, Hondacura motors don't seem to be as robust as Toyota's now, do they?!
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Offline Rota

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2011, 07:49:03 PM »
If you think that getting 165 hp out of a 1.6L motor isn't enough, check this out... There's a highly-tuned, normally-aspirated 4A-GE variant used in the Toyota Formula Atlantic Series. The displacement is still at 1.6L, but they fitted it with a fuel-injection/ignition system by TRD. In full-race trim, you can expect to get 240 beat-you-till-you're-senseless horsepower! At home in a 1,260 lb. race car, 0-60 passes by in 2.8 seconds! Quick calculations show that this monster of a motor develops 150 hp per liter. To put it into perspective, if the 5.7L Corvette engine was tuned to the same level of the 4A-GE race motor, it would make around 855 hp! And the F/A motor doesn't even have steel cylinder inserts! Umm, Hondacura motors don't seem to be as robust as Toyota's now, do they?!

4AGE a well known Toyota 1.6L engine that normally people will think that it is from a Toyota Trueno/Levin AE86 or the 4AGE 20V from the AE1xx series. This is due to the famous animation cartoon - Initial D. From what I know off, a lot of people confuse this engine with the 20 valve silvertop used in the infamous panda Trueno in Initial D cartoon. Just to let you guys know that they are totally different engine. The Formula Atlantic has been a 16 valve throughout its 15 year career in these series while the 20 valve TRD silvertop was used in the Japanese counterpart used in Group A.
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2011, 07:50:52 PM »
madd info

Offline GoogleDon

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2011, 07:53:01 PM »
This is tha 1 that made 250whp and it ran in the ae-86 cup

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2011, 07:53:39 PM »




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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2011, 08:04:09 PM »





                                      [ponder]                      [drool]                                  [eyebrows]
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Offline GTS Limit

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2011, 08:08:24 PM »
coming like the only thing original or we have access to is the block  [rofl] [rofl] [rofl] 4a mold

Offline Badsean

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2011, 06:01:21 PM »
rota u a do ur research man? keep on passing on the info as u get dem bredda [2thumbsup]

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2011, 07:30:16 PM »
rota u a do ur research man? keep on passing on the info as u get dem bredda [2thumbsup]
rota for the win and the rest a them hate it

Offline coolie yute

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2011, 10:34:13 PM »
i absolutely love the 4age series beautiful motors
"Aerodynamics is for those who cannot manufacture good engines"
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2011, 11:06:38 PM »
rota u a do ur research man? keep on passing on the info as u get dem bredda [2thumbsup]
yes boss [thumbsup]... toyota enuh [nod]
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Offline coolie yute

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2011, 11:34:17 PM »
is that 250whp figure correct?
"Aerodynamics is for those who cannot manufacture good engines"
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Offline toyracer

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2011, 01:56:39 PM »
This is tha 1 that made 250whp and it ran in the ae-86 cup


Incorrect. The 4A-G in that picture is the Formula Atlantic engine, for installation in Swift and other sanctioned chassis. The header design is clearly for a Formula car and could not possibly fit in an AE86.

And 250 would be flywheel hp.

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2011, 05:53:56 PM »
This is tha 1 that made 250whp and it ran in the ae-86 cup


Incorrect. The 4A-G in that picture is the Formula Atlantic engine, for installation in Swift and other sanctioned chassis. The header design is clearly for a Formula car and could not possibly fit in an AE86.

And 250 would be flywheel hp.

its actually 240hp to the fly [nod]
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2011, 02:38:53 PM »
This is tha 1 that made 250whp and it ran in the ae-86 cup


Incorrect. The 4A-G in that picture is the Formula Atlantic engine, for installation in Swift and other sanctioned chassis. The header design is clearly for a Formula car and could not possibly fit in an AE86.

And 250 would be flywheel hp.

its actually 240hp to the fly [nod]

240 is what they admit to, 250 (and more) has been achieved.

Offline GinoX

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2011, 12:29:53 PM »
This is tha 1 that made 250whp and it ran in the ae-86 cup


Incorrect. The 4A-G in that picture is the Formula Atlantic engine, for installation in Swift and other sanctioned chassis. The header design is clearly for a Formula car and could not possibly fit in an AE86.

And 250 would be flywheel hp.

its actually 240hp to the fly [nod]

240 is what they admit to, 250 (and more) has been achieved.


I remember there was some kinda press release at the time that there was a 262 bhp reading from two or more engine builders' engines.  I would like to think it was in 1999~2000..........  [ponder]

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2011, 11:03:03 PM »
This is tha 1 that made 250whp and it ran in the ae-86 cup


Incorrect. The 4A-G in that picture is the Formula Atlantic engine, for installation in Swift and other sanctioned chassis. The header design is clearly for a Formula car and could not possibly fit in an AE86.

And 250 would be flywheel hp.

its actually 240hp to the fly [nod]

240 is what they admit to, 250 (and more) has been achieved.


I remember there was some kinda press release at the time that there was a 262 bhp reading from two or more engine builders' engines.  I would like to think it was in 1999~2000..........  [ponder]
yes some atlantic series produced greater numbers due to tuning capabilities that some had over the multitude, but in the series races all had to produce equal results.
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2011, 11:10:02 PM »
best 1.6L ever [notworthy]
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2011, 11:14:15 PM »
And these are the 16v versions. I would suspect the 20v produce more power but are just quoted the same. Toyota did the same thing with the 2ZZ. No matter what they did to then engine, it never passed 210.
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2011, 11:19:55 PM »
And these are the 16v versions. I would suspect the 20v produce more power but are just quoted the same. Toyota did the same thing with the 2ZZ. No matter what they did to then engine, it never passed 210.
it did not pass 210 but it won more than 210 overall races [nod].....it secured top points/was a #1 qualifier/won season championships/won back to back series races. [king]

this was the highest rated atlantic 4age motor in n/a trim...note the difference in the valve cover.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 11:28:15 PM by R O T A »
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2011, 11:32:16 PM »


The very best TRD Atlantic engines would put out 230 crank hp over a very narrow powerband [bb]. This was with a better header. Header technology is even better now a days with stepped primaries, true merged collectors with venturis and reverse megaphones. Considering that this engine has milder cams than a typical Atlantic engine, the power output is right in line. Technosquare ended up running 304/304 TRD cams which was considered to be a rally combination. Atlantic and GT engines ran 320/304 but this was for lighter true race cars.

The engine is a little over 13:1 like Atlantic engines.

The head on this engine isn't so great, especially the worn sunk valves. The valves are really on there last legs with the margins knife sharp and the 45 on the seat below the CC deck! They are two valve job past usable but the owner didn't want to spend the money on new valves. Hasselgren has a huge rep but the head and port work was disappointing. Technosquare touched it up but could only build to the owners budget and what he ultimately wanted to do. There is a lot of power lost in the head. Sunk valves kill flow.

I think this engine could easily be at 200 wheel hp and 240 crank hp with a better head and header. RWD cars loose at least 20% to the rear wheels.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 11:37:03 PM by R O T A »
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Offline GinoX

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2011, 01:08:35 PM »
And these are the 16v versions. I would suspect the 20v produce more power but are just quoted the same. Toyota did the same thing with the 2ZZ. No matter what they did to then engine, it never passed 210.

this was the highest rated atlantic 4age motor in n/a trim...note the difference in the valve cover.

It's for attaching the main chassis rails to it, as in "stressed member for the chassis". It's a integral part of the chassis... etc etc  8)

Like so..... just in your reply # 5 above.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 01:43:52 PM by GinoX »

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2011, 01:57:38 PM »
I meant the power rating for the 2ZZGE, its never rated more than 210ps, no matter what the trim. The TOM'S team reported their N1 16v 223whp.
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2011, 02:48:49 PM »
I meant the power rating for the 2ZZGE, its never rated more than 210ps, no matter what the trim. The TOM'S team reported their N1 16v 223whp.

<sidestepping thread for a moment> And with this Toda stroker kit, high compression piston set and a good tuning, one could  say horsepower rating would be over that at the wheels.

http://tdi-plc.com/blog/29/09/2009/toda-racing-releases-1933cc-stroker-kits-for-toyota-2zz-ge-vvtl-i-engine-used-in-s2-lotus-elise-exige-and-celica/

... and what if said stroker kit would be combined with cams featuring this grind

Quote
Camshafts Only

The Piper 285 camshafts bring the 2ZZ-GE engine to life for track day and fast-road use.

Power Band: 2000-8500rpm

http://www.hangar111.com/web-store/196-lotus-exige-s2-s-engine-tuning-parts

<sidestepping back to original thread>

Offline 4E-FTE

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2011, 03:02:50 PM »
I think the issue is that manufacturer figures are sometimes 'reduced' for reasons. There's no technical reason why a FA 4AGE16v would make the same power as its 20v counterpart, or why a 2ZZGE regardless of the modifications Toyota and TRD have done to it never passes 210ps.
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2011, 10:11:59 PM »
I think the issue is that manufacturer figures are sometimes 'reduced' for reasons. There's no technical reason why a FA 4AGE16v would make the same power as its 20v counterpart, or why a 2ZZGE regardless of the modifications Toyota and TRD have done to it never passes 210ps.
these engines are like the holy bible [nod] u get different reasonings on them but hardly the truth [ninja] [ninja] [ninja] [ninja] [ninja] [ninja] [ninja] [ninja] [ninja] [ninja] [ninja] and there is no way on satans earth that a 16v is goin to make the same power as a 20v with both sharing the same mods together... the 20v will exceed the 16v and the 3/1/2zz will be above the previous ones.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 10:15:02 PM by R O T A »
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2011, 08:09:57 AM »
actually i heard the 4ag 16v Formula Atlantic better than the 20v version  [ponder]
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2011, 08:35:05 AM »
rota, read up on a thing called 'citation'. while ur at it, look up copyright infringement [thumbsup]

http://www.ae92gts.com/3a1.html

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2011, 08:50:13 AM »


The very best TRD Atlantic engines would put out 230 crank hp over a very narrow powerband [bb]. This was with a better header. Header technology is even better now a days with stepped primaries, true merged collectors with venturis and reverse megaphones. Considering that this engine has milder cams than a typical Atlantic engine, the power output is right in line. Technosquare ended up running 304/304 TRD cams which was considered to be a rally combination. Atlantic and GT engines ran 320/304 but this was for lighter true race cars.

The engine is a little over 13:1 like Atlantic engines.

The head on this engine isn't so great, especially the worn sunk valves. The valves are really on there last legs with the margins knife sharp and the 45 on the seat below the CC deck! They are two valve job past usable but the owner didn't want to spend the money on new valves. Hasselgren has a huge rep but the head and port work was disappointing. Technosquare touched it up but could only build to the owners budget and what he ultimately wanted to do. There is a lot of power lost in the head. Sunk valves kill flow.

I think this engine could easily be at 200 wheel hp and 240 crank hp with a better head and header. RWD cars loose at least 20% to the rear wheels.

:o :o :o :o :o look just like my 4a block with a mad head and oil pan [whistle]

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2011, 02:06:25 PM »
rota, read up on a thing called 'citation'. while ur at it, look up copyright infringement [thumbsup]

http://www.ae92gts.com/3a1.html
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2011, 05:03:00 PM »
Quote
actually i heard the 4ag 16v Formula Atlantic better than the 20v version
Yeah, tha'ts why TOM'S switched to the ST and then the BT for N1 racing and why Formula Toyota uses ST engines. (sarcasm button)
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2011, 07:26:43 PM »
Quote
actually i heard the 4ag 16v Formula Atlantic better than the 20v version
Yeah, tha'ts why TOM'S switched to the ST and then the BT for N1 racing and why Formula Toyota uses ST engines. (sarcasm button)
[noclue]
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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2011, 09:35:12 PM »
rota, read up on a thing called 'citation'. while ur at it, look up copyright infringement [thumbsup]

http://www.ae92gts.com/3a1.html
[matrix] [shotta] [shotta] [shotta].... U A IDLERS! nuh hav nuh time fi yuh [sleeping]

ok, continue passing on info from others as yours [thumbsup]

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2011, 09:38:08 PM »
rota, read up on a thing called 'citation'. while ur at it, look up copyright infringement [thumbsup]

http://www.ae92gts.com/3a1.html
[matrix] [shotta] [shotta] [shotta].... U A IDLERS! nuh hav nuh time fi yuh [sleeping]

ok, continue passing on info from others as yours [thumbsup]
yuh nuh have ra$$ eye fi si dat d margin pon di parragraph dem intact [question]  a wah do yuh? did i say that it was my info? tek yuh c@@@@t out the thread if u nuh have nutten fi duh [whoopass]
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Offline DieselTrain

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2011, 09:40:54 PM »
a wah do yuh? did i say that it was my info?

had u read up on 'citation', u would not be asking such a dumb question [thumbsup]

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2011, 10:50:49 PM »
Quote
actually i heard the 4ag 16v Formula Atlantic better than the 20v version
Yeah, tha'ts why TOM'S switched to the ST and then the BT for N1 racing and why Formula Toyota uses ST engines. (sarcasm button)

In regard to N1, didn't TOM's switch because Toyota stopped producing the 16v, and the N1 class is based on FIA Group N technical regulations?

Offline 4E-FTE

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2011, 11:04:09 PM »
True, but they used their experience to develop the changes for the BT and with the demise of N1 they've had the chance to go 16v. So if it was that much better they could have easily stayed with the old 16v technology. Obviously, it wasn't.
Mixed in with the fun of driving it, is the embarrassment of owning and being seen in it - Jeremy Clarkson on the Mitsubishi Evolution.

Offline toyracer

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2011, 11:05:03 PM »
<sidestepping thread for a moment> And with this Toda stroker kit, high compression piston set and a good tuning, one could  say horsepower rating would be over that at the wheels.

Looks like nothing more than a glorified 1ZZ crankshaft and accompanying parts... exact same stroke as the 1ZZ-FE...

Offline GinoX

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Re: THE FORMULA ATLANTIC SERIES TOYOTA 4AGE ENGINE
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2011, 09:15:03 AM »
<sidestepping thread for a moment> And with this Toda stroker kit, high compression piston set and a good tuning, one could  say horsepower rating would be over that at the wheels.

Looks like nothing more than a glorified 1ZZ crankshaft and accompanying parts... exact same stroke as the 1ZZ-FE...


Hmmmm.... yeah, seems to be the same trick done to the stroker 3SGTE kit. A 5SFE crank was used....  [dj]